[ajohn505]

I'd just like to ask for all your thoughts regarding spawncamping. Are you for or against? Why? No one-sentence d00d-speak replies, please. I look forward to seeing the reasoning from both sides.

[Packetloss]

Which game?

[Horsepower]

if this is an attempt to change the EoD server rules, it's not going to work. just because you don't like them doesn't mean noone else does. back when i started administrating this server, i asked the EoD community how they would like the server set up. the current rules are a compromise to the responses i got. THAT compromise and the enforcement of those rules by good admins is what makes this EoD server extremely popular. changing the rules does not make sense, and therefore will not happen.

if this poll is not an attempt by you to get the rules changed, i apologize for the rant. but the above paragraph is a direct response to statements made by you on the server last night before you were banned. i say again, if you don't like the server rules, you are free to play on another server.

my opinion about spawning camping? i dont care. i kill anything that moves, no matter where it is. my answer to your poll would be E... none of the above.

[ajohn505]

This is for the game: EoD

It's not necessarily an attempt to get the rules changed. I just want to understand the arguments for/against.

Originally Posted by Horsepower

THAT compromise and the enforcement of those rules by good admins is what makes this EoD server extremely popular.

Actually, the low player count is what allows servers that already have players to snowball into popular servers. Not to say that the NinjaServe server isn't great: I love it. It's generally lag-free and has good admins. It's just that when there's only 3 servers for this mod with any players at all on them, it's difficult to determine why they're populated. Certainly good admining doesn't hurt.

Your answer isn't much of an answer. You really have no preference whatsoever?

[CannibalKid]

I voted no, solely because we can't understand the intentions of the players who are "spawn camping". For example, i rarely "spawn camp". When i do, it's usually to take out equipment, not players. If i'm in a Mig, then i'd really like to have air dominance and i'll "spawn camp" so i can take out Allied fighters while their easy targets on the ground. Then i'll have a min or two to rock all the other tanks and heuys that are elsewhere on the map pretty much worry free. Do i consider this spawn camping? No, not really. Why? Because my intention isn't to gun like 4 people down in one burst because they all apeared on top of one another when the respawned. I'll wait for that opportunity when a heuy with 3 - 5 guys goes flyign by.

More often, i see players just spawn camping for the sole purpose that it's the simpilist way to get kills. Thats just a waste of everyone's time. If it were possible, i'd just give a spawn camper 1000 kills via the console and kick him. Everyone is happy. He's got the stats, i got a game with no spawn camping that is actually a challange. Seriously, if you want to just rack up kills, play co-op. The other day i got a score of like 189 in a game of Trang Lon (or whatever). It's pretty much the same challange.

Unless spawn code got more advanced (for example always spawning with a building or other hard cover between you and the enemy) spawn camping is just taking advantage of the game design.

[ajohn505]

Originally Posted by CannibalKid

I voted no, solely because we can't understand the intentions of the players who are "spawn camping". For example, i rarely "spawn camp". When i do, it's usually to take out equipment, not players. If i'm in a Mig, then i'd really like to have air dominance and i'll "spawn camp" so i can take out Allied fighters while their easy targets on the ground. Then i'll have a min or two to rock all the other tanks and heuys that are elsewhere on the map pretty much worry free. Do i consider this spawn camping? No, not really.

Then you voted wrong, because this is a form of spawn camping. If you bomb equipment at an uncappable spawn before you control all the flags, you would be kicked from Ninja's server.

Originally Posted by CannibalKid

More often, i see players just spawn camping for the sole purpose that it's the simpilist way to get kills. Thats just a waste of everyone's time.

It is an easy way to get personal stats. However, he's not out at the front lines capturing flags to run down the tickets at a faster rate. In effect, he's hurting your team in the long run by spawncamping.

Originally Posted by CannibalKid

spawn camping is just taking advantage of the game design.

See, I just don't know. Busting out of a spawncamp is usually really easy. If they have more than a couple guys spawncamping you, usually the rest of the map is poorly defended. Easy pickings, flag-wise! It's almost like the developers built in this balance.

[Bonez]

well i'm a sniper pilot in eod, so i don't hide in the base when i "camp" i will hide around and in buildings and towers on the outer rim of the base, i've been on servers playing dc where i have been kicked for being a scout in the enemy base spotting arty for bombardment and distruction of equip and people, i killed 4 people in a whole al map and diden't care, but i got kicked for "camping" when i got the 4 kills just before the round ended (elimated last 4 tags) now i personally draw the limit at people going in with tanks and a repair kit, or parking on a repair pad and camping

[Trahn_Lee_Liao]

You do not really want to hear my two cents.. Let's just leave it like it is.. I first came to play on the Ninja Server because I liked the way the rules were set up. That was a long time ago. I have been playing on the Server for many months now continuously. I have played on alot of other servers where there were no rules and spawn camping was allowed.

I do not enjoy spawning in only to get two steps in before I am killed. With the spawn times the way they are. Sometimes you can get a 15+ second spawn time. Now.. if someone were camping your base.. and had all the spawn points memorized and killed you each time you spawned. With an average of 15 to 20 seconds per spawn.. You end up burning up alot of time just spawning into the game instead of being able to actually get some play time in. (Keep in mind you came to the server to play..not sit around)

Look at it this way.. I once was killed over 10 times in my spawn and had just the senario I described.. That is almost 2 minute of play time. Add that into what you would "normally" spend in spawning in.. and in a 45 minute game.. you can burn up as much as 10 to 15 minutes of play time just spawning into the game. Average that over the course of an evening.. and the amout of time you spend just getting into the game can be tremendous.

I came to the server to play.. not watch my player spawn and die over and over. To me that is just not any fun. I think you will find that is why alot of people come to the Ninja Server to play. Because there ARE rules and it is a fun gaming experience.

Opening up the spawn to camping has no place on this server. If you want a spawn camping server.. go someplace else to play. I hope that when you do find such a server.. you get the chance to get spawn camped repeatedly. Maybe you enjoy the challenge of "breaking out". I assure you that most of the community does not.

Trahn Lee

[ajohn505]

Originally Posted by Trahn_Lee_Liao

You do not really want to hear my two cents..

...
You end up burning up alot of time just spawning into the game instead of being able to actually get some play time in. (Keep in mind you came to the server to play..not sit around)

...

Average that over the course of an evening.. and the amout of time you spend just getting into the game can be tremendous.

...

I think you will find that is why alot of people come to the Ninja Server to play. Because there ARE rules and it is a fun gaming experience.

...

Opening up the spawn to camping has no place on this server. If you want a spawn camping server.. go someplace else to play. I hope that when you do find such a server.. you get the chance to get spawn camped repeatedly. Maybe you enjoy the challenge of "breaking out". I assure you that most of the community does not.

Trahn Lee

Thanks for your opinions. It seems that you've put some thought into them, and I respect them. Of course, I disagree, so I'll try to rebut your points as best I can.

I agree that the wasted time is an annoyance on spawn camp servers. I sure as hell don't like waiting to respawn knowing that I'm needed in a battle. However, I believe that pushing the enemy back to their base and keeping them there _should_ be painful. If a team has squandered every opportunity to hold one other flag, it should be a hard-fought struggle to earn it back. What it should _not_ be is a cakewalk to the closest flag, with the enemy forced to keep a comfortable distance so you can set up a complex attack.

If I am killed, losing a ticket for my team, it should hurt. I am comfortable in the knowledge that killing my opponent hurts him as well, by making him wait and losing a ticket for his team.

In addition, if my team has one other spawn point, basecamping is a moot point entirely! If I am being basecamped, I am unable to stand in line behind the other pilots at the airfield... but I am able to spawn at the other point we control and capture other flags, comfortable in the knowledge that every basecamper in my base is one fewer defender at the next objective.

I agree with you as well that rules are an important part of EoD. I like the NinjaServe rules regarding respawn times, tag distances, friendly fire, and splash damage. It _is_ a fun gaming experience. What's not as fun are artificial constraints that are meted out by a team of fallible, albeit well-meaning admins.

"Basecamp" has become the most common cry on the battlefield. It used to be "cheater" or "wallhack"... now it's "basecamp". It's the crutch of the frustrated, losing team. It's the annoyed cry of the pilot whose planes keep getting bombed.

For a server that prides itself on realism, with low tag distances and friendly fire, this artificial contstraint seems out of place, a bone thrown to the arcade crowd who wants to rush in and get a quick fix. EoD is meant to be a realistic mod. Would the VC hesitate to basecamp? Would the US hold off on napalming a VC base?

I play with many seasoned players who enjoy basecamp servers. Unfortunately, EoD has dwindled to the point where there's really only 2 populated servers open at any time. These players, like me, enjoy the challenge of breaking a basecamp. We spawn at other locations and capture flags while the basecampers focus on killing the pilots waiting in line for planes. We spawn in our bases as antiarmor or assault and dispatch the campers quickly. And when we've fought our way out, we make them pay. Every victory is hard-earned, and every defeat bitterly fought to the very end.

I play on anti-basecamp servers because there are no alternatives left in this shrinking mod, but somehow the victories aren't as sweet knowing that my opponents were artificially hindered from annihilating me.

[Trahn_Lee_Liao]

You have some very valid points as well. However, you certainly DO NOT respect my opinion or the opinions of those who admin. on the Ninja Server. This is the whole reason for your post regarding our rules. You are upset and bitter that you cannot play the game in the manner YOU find acceptable while on this server.

This server is not owned by you, EA Games or any other PUBLIC company. You did not pay anything for the privelege to play on it. It is a PRIVATE server. It is put up and supported by a generous individual and he has set some rules and guidelines of how he would like to see people conduct themselves while in his server. Since it is a PRIVATE server. He can set the rules as he sees fit AND allow only those who are deserving to play upon it. If you do not like the rules.. do not enter and play upon this server.

As a matter of fact. Why don't you go and rent yourself or start your own server. Then you can have any rules on it that YOU want. Let people basecamp and do anything THEY want. However, I doubt you will keep it full for very long.

See, there is a reason why this server is one of the remaining few that stay full ALL THE TIME during regular peak gaming hours. There is a reason why the servers that you play or played upon with your spawn camping rules are not so full. The general consensus of the community is that they do NOT want a base camping server.

Yes, I do understand the TACTICAL/REALISM aspect of camping the other sides spawn..but this is NOT REAL LIFE. It is a GAME..while alot of us take it pretty serious (Including myself).. most play it just for the entertainment/fun value. You are in a minority with your views and method of play. The majority of the people who play EOD do not share your views.

I can sit here and pick apart each and every point you make in a rebuttal. There are pros and cons to each and every one. However, I am not going to do that. It is probably a waste of my time and I really do not know why I am even bothering to respond to your forum post other than the fact of the matter is... You just do not get it...

On the administration side...I do not play any favorites toward one side or the other, nor do any of the other admin that admin. on this server. If you are breaking a rule.. no matter what side you are on. You can be removed from the server. If my team is losing and we do not control all the flags and have a player camping the other teams spawn.. that player will be removed from the game. Just as if your team is losing and you do not posses all of the flags and you are in my spawn. You will be removed from the game. There are no favorites. There is no stacking of one side or another.. it is pointless as the server has autobalance enabled. Therefore, do not think you are being removed to ensure a win by a "fallible, albeit well-meaning admin."

I am a seasoned player. I have played EOD since day one. I have been an admin. for many servers before this one. They all had rules of some sort. We are all pretty fair people. We will not tolerate bending or breaking of the server rules. We do not have time to debate the server rules with every Tom, Dick and Harry who comes into the server and decides to challenge them. We also would like to be able to play the game as well.

Oh wait...I know...Let's see, let us play by your method.. I can see this surely must be fun for EVERYONE..NOT. According to your way of thought and your thinking. Before you capture ANY Flag.. Why not have everyone on your team load up every chopper, tank, plane, truck and jeep and go right into the enemy spawn. Deny them ANY flag and Lock them down!! Let's let all your "many seasoned playing buddies" run rampant in the other teams spawn full of people who just downloaded and started to play the game 10 minutes before. Yeah! Now that would be awsome eh?? Destroy and take the fun away from a bunch of NOOBS!!! WOOT!!! I don't think so...

All the spawn camping does is turn people away from the server and away from the MOD. If we all played by your way of thinking and ran our servers the way you would like to play. Eventually, there will not be but maybe just 1 server to play on. Then what are you gonna do??? You will have no place to play.

What fun would that be? This mod is not shrinking. The amount of BF 1942 EOD based servers might slowly dissipate.. I can agree on that. However, the EOD Mod will prosper and continue on with the BFV game engine. Therefore, I do not see that you will have any truely great loss. I am sure that you will be able to find yourself a nice happy spawn camping server in the future. Full of people like yourself that enjoy that kind of game play. While I could be wrong as I do not own this server. I think that it is probably safe to say that you will never find it here. Go someplace else if you want to spawn camp.

Trahn