[Bonez]

Originally Posted by ICEPICK

I stand corrected......... but The Government was elected by the people tho

by a system regulated by the government and controlled by companies with ties to government.

[ASH...HOUSEWARES]

icepick, do you really believe that as truth and a solution????

[Horsepower]

Originally Posted by ASH...HOUSEWARES

icepick, do you really believe that as truth and a solution????

i actually agree with some of it, but i don't understand the hostility towards Canada or Mexico(though the border with Mexico should be tightened). my opinions on each point Icepick makes are in bold after each one.

even though i don't like Bush, he's not even close to being Hitler.

Originally Posted by ICEPICK

I see you didnt actually bother to comprehend what it says.................... I suggest you try reading it again or if it is to much trouble I will help you with a brief synopsis:

1.The United States should pull out of the UN & tell the UN to move their headquarters to Europe.
Disagree

2.The United States should leave NATO & pull out any remaining troops stationed in Europe.
We should not leave NATO, though we should remove our troops from Europe.

3.Remove all troops from South Korea, since the majority of South Koreans feel we are the problem.
Agreed

4.The following countries Belgium, Canada, Egypt, France, Germany, Mexico, or Turkey should go their own way without any US support/interfence.
All countries should go their own way without our interference. They should get our support in times of crisis. Just because a country has a difference of opinion with us doesn't mean we should retaliate by not helping when they really need it if we have the means to assist. Not helping would be bad karma. What comes around, goes around

5.The US should draw closer to the following nations Japan, India, Australia, Britain,Taiwan, Israel, & very few Eastern and Western European countries.
Agreed, with the exception of Israel. The US should be neutral/fair in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

6.Any future crisis arises outside of our smaller sphere with the above mentioned allies let the UN handle it.
See number 4


In order to achieve the above the US will have to do these 3 things in regards to foreign policy:

We need increased defense spending, especially in transport, mobile forces, missile defense, and carriers that both require as little dependence as possible on foreign basing and provide maximum protection for the U.S. mainland.
At this time the US cannot afford to increase spending in anything. We run a $7 Trillion dollar public debit which could potentially become a National Security problem in and of itself. I'll also add that we should stop giving foreign aid to ALL countries, except in the form of humanitarian aid. While we prop up other countries, our national debt grows larger. Stupid policy. Take that money and pay our bills.

Second, we must find a middle path to energy independence that embraces conservation, nuclear power, more exploration, alternative fuels, coal — anything other than sending billions more to god-forsaken regimes abroad that will only recycle those easy dollars in ways to weaken or destroy us as they deny that’s what they’re doing.
Agree

Finally, we must seek similar financial independence, and get our annual deficits and national debts under reasonable control to ensure immunity from creditors who increasingly are turning hostile.
Agree

[*SW€D€*]

Good written HP

Except in the Israel and palestine issue. I believe that palestine are wrong!

[Bonez]

Originally Posted by *SW€D€*

Except in the Israel and palestine issue. I believe that palestine are wrong!

you think the people that had their country taken away from them, and keep having their land taken away from them are the bad guys ?

[ICEPICK]

Originally Posted by ASH...HOUSEWARES

icepick, do you really believe that as truth and a solution????

The USA needs to starts somewhere with regards to fixing Our own problems............... Its not a question of whether or not I believe everything in the article. Its a question of what do you think will be needed to correct the current bullshit that exists in regards to foreign/ domestic policy

Originally Posted by Horsepower

i don't understand the hostility towards Canada or Mexico(though the border with Mexico should be tightened).

I dont have a problem with Canadians or Mexicans............. well maybe 1 Canadian.........

The border situation needs to be fixxed............ Law enforcement should not turn a blind eye to people that are here Illegally. The US Government should either provide amnesty that leads to Citizenship or start deporting people here illegaly. (Not just our neighbors to the south)
I also understand that the economy needs these people to do jobs that most Americans refuse to do.

Originally Posted by Bonez

you think the people that had their country taken away from them, and keep having their land taken away from them are the bad guys ?

Ok heres the deal the British Mandate with regards to Palestine ended up being a FUBAR...... The Arabs didnt like what the British did so they attacked the Israeli section of Palestine 3 x times & got their asses handed to them each time losing more land each time. Sounds like to me that the Arabs living in Palestine could have controlled the majority of current day Israel if they would have left the Jews alone. Further more there is no such thing as a Palestinian....... they are either Jordanian or Egyptian.. Palestine was the name given to the area by the Romans

[*SW€D€*]

Originally Posted by ICEPICK

Ok heres the deal the British Mandate with regards to Palestine ended up being a FUBAR...... The Arabs didnt like what the British did so they attacked the Israeli section of Palestine 3 x times & got their asses handed to them each time losing more land each time. Sounds like to me that the Arabs living in Palestine could have controlled the majority of current day Israel if they would have left the Jews alone. Further more there is no such thing as a Palestinian....... they are either Jordanian or Egyptian.. Palestine was the name given to the area by the Romans

Agree...to 100%

Good written Ice!

[Bonez]

Originally Posted by ICEPICK

Ok heres the deal the British Mandate with regards to Palestine ended up being a FUBAR...... The Arabs didnt like what the British did so they attacked the Israeli section of Palestine 3 x times & got their asses handed to them each time losing more land each time. Sounds like to me that the Arabs living in Palestine could have controlled the majority of current day Israel if they would have left the Jews alone. Further more there is no such thing as a Palestinian....... they are either Jordanian or Egyptian.. Palestine was the name given to the area by the Romans

before 1945 Isreal didn't exist anymore, it was wiped off the map and replaced with another country, Palestine(during the Roman empire as you stated).

that is why they are so sore about it in that area, and all during the cold war the whole place was a clusterfuk, 6day/week War(or somthing like that) where the surrounding countries invaded Isreal, but were met with an American military force who proceeded to invade the surrounding area(parts of ejypt, more of palestine, jordan, syria) not to mention the hundreds of other smaller conflicts.(why ? because the people were ruled by religion and the land where Isreal was created is the arab version of the Vatican)

only thing keeping the surrounding countries from invading Isreal is
#1, Atomic capability, yes Isreal has missiles and bombs.
#2, United States backing, any attack on Isreal will result in a counterattack by the US, which will involve occupying of the country and replacement of the government.
#3, Numbers, the reason they are using gurella warfare is because they CAN'T wage a traditional war, they don't have the Raw numbers of weapons or people(compared to Isreal and allies) to wage a war to the extent that they would need to get past the american backing of Isreal(100 guys with handguns vs 4 - 6 apachee's)

pull Isreals backing, remove their Nuclear capilibity and take back 80% of the aircraft and equipment. then Isreal would be allmost equal to it's surrounding countries and be Forced to negotiate instead of taking the stance that they can afford to take.

Roadmap to peace is missing the biggest problem, and it isen't Iran or Iraq or Afganastan, it is Isreal, to the nations there, a common enemy. same reason you keep hearing about fighters coming across the borders in Iraq, they now have a common enemy and are not trying to kill each other.

and personally if the US wasn't so entrenched in the area, a hands off approach would have worked much better then this get down and dirty one. it's their area, they have the RIGHT to solve their problems their way.

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and as for the border, Americans come up here to take advantage of the prescription drugs and health care system. and as far as illegal immigration, Canadians working in the states require green cards(because their considered educated workers) and can't bypass the system like mexicans and cubans can.

[ICEPICK]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British...ations_mandate


In June 1922 the League of Nations passed the Palestine Mandate. The Palestine Mandate was an explicit document regarding Britain's responsibilities and powers of administration in Palestine including: "secur[ing] the establishment of the Jewish national home", and "safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine"......

Great Uprising
In 1936-1939 the mandate experienced an upsurge in militant Arab nationalism that became known as the Great Uprising and, "The Arab Revolt." The revolt was triggered by increased Jewish immigration, primarily Jews fleeing Nazi persecution in Germany as well as rising antisemitism in Eastern Europe. The revolt was led or coopted by the Grand Mufti, Haj Amin Al-Husseini and his Husseini family, and is strongly suspected to have been financed by the Fascist government of Italy. The Arabs felt they were being marginalized in their own country, but in addition to non-violent strikes, they resorted to terrorism, leaving hundreds of Jews dead. Husseini's men killed more Arabs than Jews, using the revolt as an excuse to settle accounts with rival clans. The Jewish organization Etzel replied with its own terrorist campaign, with marketplace bombings and other violent acts that also killed hundreds. Eventually, the uprising was put down by the British using draconian measures.......

The British placed restrictions on Jewish land purchases in the remaining land, directly contradicting the provision of the Mandate ....

1947 UN Partition Plan

The first called for the creation of independent Arab and Jewish states in Palestine, with Jerusalem to be placed under international administration. The second called for the creation of a single federal state containing both Jewish and Arab constituent states......

first option was adopted and the UN General Assembly largely accepted UNSCOP's proposals, though they made some adjustments to the boundaries between the two states proposed by it.

...The partition plan was rejected out of hand by the Palestinian Arabs, although much of the land reserved for the Jewish state had already been acquired by Jews, had a Jewish majority, or was under state control. Most of the Jews accepted the proposal, in particular the Jewish Agency, which was the Jewish state-in-formation.
......

On the date of British withdrawal the Jewish provisional government declared the formation of the State of Israel, and the provisional government said that it would grant full civil rights to all within its borders, whether Arab, Jew, Bedouin or Druze. The declaration stated:

We appeal ... to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.
Thus, upon creating the state - any inhabitants inside the newly formed State of Israel, whether Palestinian Jews or Palestinian Arabs, became Israeli.

The Arabs actually felt this was truer to form .....Palestinians consider a far more accurate statement of the intention of the founders of Israel to be that of Chaim Weizmann, who reportedly said:

[Our intention is to] finally establish such a society in Palestine that Palestine shall be as Jewish as England is English, or America is American.

Originally Posted by Bonez

before 1945 Isreal didn't exist anymore, it was wiped off the map and replaced with another country, Palestine(during the Roman empire as you stated).

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_ear...ame_origin.php

In AD 135, after putting down the Bar Kochba revolt, the second major Jewish revolt against Rome, the Emperor Hadrian wanted to blot out the name of the Roman "Provincia Judaea" and so renamed it "Provincia Syria Palaestina", the Latin version of the Greek name and the first use of the name as an administrative unit. The name "Provincia Syria Palaestina" was later shortened to Palaestina, from which the is derived.modern, anglicized "Palestine"

Originally Posted by Bonez

that is why they are so sore about it in that area, and all during the cold war the whole place was a clusterfuk, 6day/week War(or somthing like that) where the surrounding countries invaded Isreal, but were met with an American military force who proceeded to invade the surrounding area(parts of ejypt, more of palestine, jordan, syria) not to mention the hundreds of other smaller conflicts.

I dont know where you got your information from but heres what really happened

http://www.historyguy.com/arab_israeli_wars.html

Originally Posted by Bonez

(why ? because the people were ruled by religion and the land where Isreal was created is the arab version of the Vatican)

The Arab Version of the Vatican is in Mecca, Saudi Arabia......

Originally Posted by Bonez

only thing keeping the surrounding countries from invading Isreal is
#1, Atomic capability, yes Isreal has missiles and bombs.
#2, United States backing, any attack on Isreal will result in a counterattack by the US, which will involve occupying of the country and replacement of the government.
#3, Numbers, the reason they are using gurella warfare is because they CAN'T wage a traditional war, they don't have the Raw numbers of weapons or people(compared to Isreal and allies) to wage a war to the extent that they would need to get past the american backing of Isreal(100 guys with handguns vs 4 - 6 apachee's)

In response to all this re read this
http://www.historyguy.com/arab_israeli_wars.html


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Originally Posted by Bonez

and as for the border, Americans come up here to take advantage of the prescription drugs and health care system. and as far as illegal immigration, Canadians working in the states require green cards(because their considered educated workers) and can't bypass the system like mexicans and cubans can.

I am positive that if a Canadian desires to work in the US legally it is way easier for them to get legal employment here with all the proper paper work.

[Bonez]

reasons the area is screwed up

The Six-Day War (1967)
In a rapid pre-emptive attack, Israel crushed the military forces of Egypt, Jordan and Syria and seized large amounts of land from each. Iraq also participated in the fighting on the Arab side.

The Osirak Raid (1981)
An Israeli air attack on Iraq's Osirak nuclear reactor.

The Israeli Invasion of Lebanon (1982-1984)
In response to repeated guerrilla attacks by the PLO, which were launched from South Lebanon, Israel invaded with the intent of destroying Arafat's forces. Syria, which maintained a large army in Lebanon, fought Israel and suffered an embarrassing defeat.

The Israeli Occupation of South Lebanon (1984-2000)
As they withdrew from most of Lebanon seized in the 1982 invasion, Israel held onto a large part of Southern Lebanon with the aid of the "South Lebanon Army (SLA)," a militia set up and supported by Israel. This occupation was opposed by the PLO and other Palestinian groups as an extension of their long-running conflict with Israel. Also, other militia armies (mostly Lebanese Muslim groups), such as Hezbollah (supported by Iran and Syria), stepped up attacks on the Israeli-occupied region as well as on settlements and military targets in northern Israel. In 2000, Israel withdrew from Lebanon and the SLA disbanded.

and this specifically

The "Al-Aqsa" Intifada
Urban guerrilla/commando war waged between Israel and various Palestinian groups. Between September, 2000 and, April 25 2004: 2,971 Palestinians and 970 Israelis have been killed due to the escalating violence.

plus what you posted.

only reason that Isreal hasn't been wiped off the map is because of the United States, in the end that is the point.(and i haven't looked at most of this stuff in..... a year and then some so my dates are a little buggered).

and as far as religion
http://www.yahoodi.com/peace/jerusalem.html