[¿<SWAT>?]

i can definitly see why it took you so long neg lol
my eyes are bleeding and twitching after this...
but good ideas

[CoveNaNt]

nelf = sniper.......NOT! imo nelf is first line attacker and overall killing machine(lonely wolf)

[SGTalon]

From what i can tell from everyone's posts (yes i read all of it) no one thinks the races are unbalanced.

Everyone seems to think that tweaks are needed.

I don't think that the races are all that tough even if you are level 0. I recently switched to a new race when i got level 10 on my Crypt Lord (love bubbles). And i did not have a terrible time with it. I still get nearly as many kills and don't get dominated all the time.

The thing about our server is the skill level of our regulars is very high. If i were to give a reason for why there are not as many players i would say it is because the game is 3 years old. People get bored with a game after a while.

We try to put on custom maps but as soon as they are on the server empties out.

I have no clue what the solution is to that.

As far as race tweaks...

Humans need teleport changed a bit. I think the lightning trail would be perfect, blind would be acceptable.

Night Elf needs Root lowered to 4 sec.

SH needs Invulnerable increased to 4 sec.

Orc is good.

Crypt Lord is Good - Bubbles RULE!!!

Not sure about Blood Mage - An option to respawn would be nice tough

Warden seems find but i have not played it much

Undead is fine

It would be cool if more races had graphical representations of their skills.

Just my opinion.

[Negative]

In either case whether the races are unbalanced or just need tweaked, I don't think just a few people can be the voice of the entire community. Players will most likely always want little things here and there changed, but for the better good it won't be changed. I think some important points were touched on so I think this whole discussion is progressive.

[XeNo]

If helm was reduced it would simply be near-useless.

Anyone that watches me play in the server, about 80% of my kills are headshots on any given map lately. I simply out-right can't kill Brift when he has Helm. But, it also causes me to use a bit more aim and tactic rather than just *aim at head, fire, move on* to kill him.

NE could use a serious downgrade, as has been the case for as long as I can remember so I don't expect any changes.

The point of Helm is to avoid the headshot-whores (generally the better and higher level players in the server). If it's reduced, the 'new players' you guys seem to care about so much will stand even less of a chance at living.

7000 For something that only 'kinda' works is a bit lame in my opinion.

[spatula_ninja]

thanks for the feedback, the main purpose of this post was not to make it entirely "noob friendly" but to decrease the learning curve, currently it seems harder for new players to get into the game, especially when they are 1v1 against a higher level player, case in point, yesterday i played against somebody who could get killed by bots almost regularly, so i decided to play on my blood mage because other than the occasional slap i could control how much i killed him, but even when i ran around with a 5-7 he still couldn't come out w/ an over 1:1 kdr, and after 5 rounds, he left server. I've seen him on the server before so he wasn't completely new but I could tell that he didn't like getting killed by a pistol every round (though to his credit he did kill me once).

as for humans and teleport, I believe blind is a must, having a line/shorter range would also be nice but blind is needed to stop the instant teleport and shoot. Other than another human or a night-elf the initial shoot out is against you because you have less health and no other special defense (except voodoo) and thats if you look exactly where they are teleporting, as for small maps being harder it actually makes teleport possibly stronger. All you do is wait for them to reload/go behind corner then you teleport behind them and shoot, I've even teleported 5 feet behind somebody during a point blank encounter to kill them, its too easy and it really makes humans great at both offense and defense.

for helms i think that theres not reason to need them, there might be "headshot whores" out there but for the most part it just means they can aim, and unless you know that somebody has a helm your not going to aim for the body over the head. and just because somebody survives a headshot doesn't mean they have a helm, they could have extra hp, evasion, or voodoo, so being able to deduce that somebody has a helm in the few seconds you have if u start shooting first is very hard to do.

my knife idea for voodoo, i think, would be nice, having the ability to knife somebody in voodoo would not automatically mean u know they are in voodoo, if a sound were added you wouldn't shoot them and they wouldn't shoot you so it would turn into an awkward 3 (hopefully 5) seconds of waiting to shoot. the knife would also prevent players from chickening out in a knife fight and add a vulnerability to voodoo, because if it would be advanced to 5 seconds right now it would be over powered, I've single handedly stopped a bombsite rush by using voodoo (on accident, i was an orc, so i had ultimate bound to mouse1) because i strafed in front of the rushers and shot, they all shot me, my teammates cleaned up after i emptied my clip and realized nothing was happening. But that was a mere 3 seconds, 5 seconds would be reminiscent of the swat shield from 1.6, which, while i do miss, is rather cheap.

holistically my post is more about small tweaks/changes to attract more players to the serve, less players means less people will want to play, it can even dissuade regulars from joining, while going afk in spec helps a little it's not very nice to trick people into joining the server. As stated in other posts this does reflect my personal opinions (also stated in my preamble) so think of it more as "thinking out loud" than as a draft for complete revamp of wc3

added a pole for opinions to ease the eyes of people reading so much, i voted for 2nd best because i did say some "extreme" things in hopes that the other side would rebut and the issue could get resolved somewhere in the middle, I've found that using contrast in discussions helps clearly show both sides and leads to better understanding/mediation/solving

[CorrosionX]

GJ spatula. Like was said...a lot of tweaking is needed. I hope we will be able to tweak it perfectly someday and maybe get that ninjaserve race we have always been wanting.

[faded-exile]

Human- I think the invis is good as it is.
I think having a sound for teleport would work better than a line.. just like a *poof* sound or
something, maybe add like a 1 sec flash too?

Night Elf- Im fine with everything.. yes, including roots. They may be annoying but im fine with it.

Blood mage Flame strike- somethings not right there.. but i dont know what. ehh.. maybe it should hurt armor more?

Shadow Hunter- Healing wave- increase the healing radius somewhat in order to overpower rings?
Big Bad Voodoo-Keep it the same.. make it longer, im not really sure.. making it too long can be a
disadvantage because it gives the other person extra time to reload after they emptied their
clip.

Warden- Blink- should be able to recharge after all charges are gone, and make it double the amount that ittakes for an ultimate to recharge

Vengence-I think you should be able to choose when to respawn, but the change for it should go
away after 15 seconds.(to give time for an enemy to clear out of spawn?)OR maybe just 5 secs
incase theres some way to abuse spec?

Crypt Lord-Locust Swarm- this may be rigged as if its 1v1 you can just wait and hide until your it
recharges each time until you kill the other person. The only way i see around this is for the
person to buy rings, which would cost 5k! =O not sure what to do about this skill but its fine
other than having a duel

Ankh- Should stay the same-2000 and you make money, 3000 and it just takes up a slot for shopmenu1

Tome- Not overpriced, howover, it just comes in too large of a set? other servers it would be 40 for 4k so 10000 for 100xp makes sense.. doesnt really matter though cause i would rather spend my money on other things, i only buy tomes when i have 16000

Amulet-block whatever sounds it blocks currently but make it so that you dont lose accuracy, and when you shoot it turns off, and there would be a 15 sec cooldown till you can turn it back on?

Helm-Everytime you get hsed -30 health? not sure whether there would be charges though

Rings- keep as is

Mole- Keep as is, this is not overpowered, 15000 and most people will see you anyways, if the person iswinning then taking 15000 out of 16000 doesnt always help them. Mole if more of a fun item because most of the time you only get a couple of kills, which may be under 100 exp most of the time, while a tome is 100 exp for only 10000 mole is just a gamble which is fun when you get toomuch money.

Bugspray- items specifically agaisnt one race?no offense but isnt that irrational? soon enough we might be wanting Nightelf traps to reduce the amount of roots?

Shorter map times, and votes at the end of map to choose whether we would like to extend would be nice.

Sorry If this is hard to read but i just got exhausted pretty quickly. There were some suggestions that is disagreed with, but i was too lazy to type them out =O i mostly typed the important ones to me
PS.I know i havent been on much but its because many things came up in my life and i dont have much time for games anymore! >< hopefully ill be back on soon though.

[CorrosionX]

Originally Posted by faded-exile

...traps to reduce the amount of roots?

Just gave me an idea for another race...trapper...and shopmenu 3 items...you cna lay traps...certain traps do certain things...sounds like an idea.

Traps can be bought by anyone. you can not see a trap that well, they are 90% invis, until you get within about 5 feet of them...and then can be seen. You can crouch (just like in bf2142) to get by them without setting them off. Sounds like loads of fun to me

traps:freeze, blind, poison, dummy person, drugged, "esp" (if someone goes by it sets it off and they show up on map (if psosible) or tells owner the location by announcing it has been set off at that location.), oh and "luminescent paint" one where you would be tagged be be able to be spotted (somehow) ALOT easier with nightvision not sure if this one is possible tho.

Trapper can spot traps from any distance and remove them with the E key. Can also lay traps (ultimate) can lay 3 traps. Have to think of the skills...have to be original. Maybe idk..see where people have been...by seeing "tracks" produced by peoples body heat or something idk. could also call him a hunter or more appropriate.. ranger. Ah..and can have an animal following him...to help with atacking..oh bad ass so many ideas. Sounds like guild wars ..we should steal more ideas from guild wars . Somone should make a guildwars mod.

Negative...this is going to be my race

[GeneralMalice[sh]]

i want my dwarven elite back